A pure being. beloved of God. Yes. He was. He knew her at the beginning and her love for him was eternal. For the moments he had been young (moments are eternity at the beginning of things) she had been everything and she still was his everything. In those early moments however she was reality and knowing her was to know himself.
But suffering?
Suffering was being called upon her to destroy his brothers - the other parts of himself. Suffering was the profound sense of failure at not completing the apocalypse...
It was the betrayal of Aziraphale and his...mutation and it was knowing that he could die and it was the fact that she had sent him here. She had sent him here and apparently he had free will and she hadn't said anything. She had taught him that free will was bad and wrong, a stolen thing made by her that human beings should not have had. He was supposed to follow her will and make her decisions known. Especially him. He was the messenger but she had left him, she had left him, she had left him here where he could die and get hurt.
Not just die. Die forever.
It would be interesting to watch his features because after rearing back he's crying. He's not intending to but the words - Do you know true suffering - do humans? Does he? It's too much because suffering is being without Her and without his hierarchy, his family, and they aren't here and he...he...
Running fingers across his eyes he stares at the wetness before muttering to himself.]
Disgusting.
[Before he sniffs and reaches for a napkin to stare at Loki, features solid and potentially unnerving.]
...Suffering is the only path to her. Happiness is supposed to be a reward. Not something you avoid. But please. enlighten me What counts as suffering. How do you see it.
[Loki is watching Gabriel very closely and noting his reactions. He's suffered deeply himself, especially as a child but it's not something he's willing to talk about freely. The scars are too deep and he's taken pains to bury those emotions. So his expression remains fairly impassive, neutral yet with a slight frown. Aside from more of that very pronounced twitchy blinking. He keeps a steady voice too, but it's obvious that this is a strain on him.]
Suffer the little children...
Is that it? You must suffer to find God and be happy?
I don't think that's how it should be. You do my job and see children who have been hurt both physically and emotionally, and mentally scarred beyond any hope of recovery and you tell me that that is the true path to happiness.
[His jaw sets; eyes hardened with anger. It's bubbling under the surface and he can't believe he's had a more reasonable conversation with Lucifer. Sympathy for the Devil indeed. He's beginning to think angels are too oblivious to really care about what the human world has to endure - and what humans do to themselves, given that free will by God.]
I have no frame of reference beyond my interactions with humans. [His voice darkens and he sounds incredibly human.] which are apparently fucking limited. [His voice goes blank] I was never a child.
[he pauses and has to think.] ...at least not what you would think of as a child. I was...[pause] young.
[He was young. He was young and innocent and then Lucifer divided them and he grew old and hard and cruel. Or perhaps he always was. He is starting to wonder but instead he looks unsteady.]
And children were...are not my department or purview. Sandalphon is in charge of childbirth, the only child I knew was Jesus and he...
[Gabriel's features pale.] ...I did see him suffer I suppose. And that did hurt.
[Until being here, and seeing all this and the things that have been done to me - this was the worst pain ever]
Don't you have any compassion? Shouldn't that be an angel's defining trait?
I believed a lot of lies growing up from priests who just wanted to scare us but I would have liked to think that angels truly were benevolent and gentle and watched over the innocent.
[He's clearly not believing that right now.]
Of course then there's also the warlike depiction of angels. But you don't appear to really be either.
You just don't understand, do you? Some things can't be overcome. Yes, I do believe some people can recover from trauma but then some people just don't. God should not require suffering from anybody if they are a decent and good God. Why would anyone want to make people suffer for some kind of reward that's only based on faith?
We don't have the certainty that you have. You live with it. You live with God. You know she exists. Nothing is certain for us and suffering should never be a necessity for any path.
[Shouldn't compassion be an angel's defining trait. and I would have liked to believe that angels were good and kind and benevolent.
It's when he mentions good and decent God that Gabriel's eyes flash purple and lightning crackles from his fingers. Never mind his own questions about her, never mind his own hurt and anger that she left him here.]
I'm forbidden from interfering.
[He is also beaten down by all of this. Apocalypses and having been human and the love he's sensed from them and how he is supposed to be a creature of love and compassion but people keep yelling at him and he...
Compassion.]
You think it's easy watching you all blunder around and suffer? You think I like it? Do you think I willingly want people to be hurt?
I don't.
[His prayers for peace of mind go unheeded. His prayers for kindness and understanding go unanswered and he feels painfully alone but he will not show weakness.
Electricity crackles along his eyes and fingers.]
Do not presume that I do not have compassion or kindness for human beings. I closed the mouths of lions to protect Daniel from them. I delivered the news of her only son and the news of the gospels. My sword guards the city of Israel and I am sworn to lead the legions against the morningstar at the dawn of the final days.
[Electricity crackles and his voice echoes ever so slightly. But the electricity slides out and he sounds tired.]
...I can't help you. None of us can.
And bless it I wish I could. If only so you'd all stop saying I'm some kind of terrible angel.
[he sounds hurt.] I'm not. And She's not here and I'm tired of all of you complaining about it. She's more secretive and she never really talks to us anymore.
[Observing, Loki watches the lightning crackles and flashes of emotion. He's not entirely sure what to make of Gabriel. How much does the angel really feel and how much is just what he thinks is the right thing to say? How much is looking down on humans and not really understanding? Loki himself is pondering all of that and more himself. He wants to understand and it's been a long, ongoing spiritual search. He's not sure if he'll ever get the answers he wants - not only from Gabriel but any other religious or supernatural being who appears to have more power than a regular human such as himself. He can only ask questions and come to his own conclusions.]
Maybe you aren't a terrible angel. Maybe you're just so set on following orders that you've lost sight of individuals.
Maybe that's what all angels are like. At least those who haven't chosen free will and fallen...
I'm not here to judge you. I just want to understand you a little better.
[He's managed to calm down his own earlier rising anger and emotions, back to a more measured questioning again.]
[the notion of chosing free will makes the archangel laugh. It may or may not sound cruel.]
I hate free will.
[He doesn't look at the human for a moment before looking back and running a hand through his hair.]
Not for any of you. Not because it was...
[here was the rub. Free will was what led Jane to paint and that boy to take him to the movies and to popcorn and soda and coffee and that confusing sense of love between the Hargreeves siblings but also hatred of their father. It was Sal fighting and Device figuring things out and Aziraphale just...existing. with Crowley. The two of them taking it all in without thinking. Or perhaps thinking too much
Inflicted he wants to say. But.]
Everyone has it. [he focuses on his date, expressions severe.] demons abuse it and humans don't know how to use it.
[and angels don't acknowledge it we're not taught that it's a thing we have. And I don't know what to do with it.
The realization knocks the wind out of him and he growls.]
[His voice is strained.] I was made by her. I mean without her...I wouldn't be here.
And she's nice. I mean it's going to sound immature but she is wonderful and I just wish...I wish I could convey that. You see when you said she's cruel that's just not true at all. She deserves better from all of us.
[He stares at his hands.]
...But I don't...
...Living?
[The pain on his face is palpable] What's important to you?
Books - not even the Bible - tells the whole story.
That's why I'm talking to you in person.
You think it's simple, don't you? You know God personally and so you have everything figured out. But haven't you found that being here is much more complicated? Viewing the swarm of ants from afar isn't the same as living among them.
[That's too close to home and Gabriel's attempt at being understanding crumbles slightly.]
It's not my fault.
[Does he sound petulant? Yes. He shakes his head.]
...I couldn't leave. Someone had to manage things. Do you-
[he spreads his hands wide, leaning forward to stare at him and spread his hands.]
I supervised departments that made the trees and my voice moved the spheres of the cosmos. The power that my brothers and I had to overtake...Had to oversee? We kept things going. She has been quiet and I had to be in charge.
[Gabriel puts his head in his hands, running his fingers over his hair, before he drags his fingers through his hair. He shakes his head and gestures.]
It's not easy. You all just seem to think it's easy and I'm fucking tired of it.
[He gets a refill of his previous order and eyes Gabriel.]
You think that simply having faith will bring happiness, don't you? I lost that faith a long time ago in a system that hurts the most innocent. I had to look elsewhere for a sense of belonging.
[As a detective, he probably should already know this and he wouldn't blame Gabe for pointing that out - but he wants to know exactly what the archangel thought of as clues himself. In his own words.]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2020-01-12 04:08 am (UTC)From:A pure being. beloved of God. Yes. He was. He knew her at the beginning and her love for him was eternal. For the moments he had been young (moments are eternity at the beginning of things) she had been everything and she still was his everything. In those early moments however she was reality and knowing her was to know himself.
But suffering?
Suffering was being called upon her to destroy his brothers - the other parts of himself. Suffering was the profound sense of failure at not completing the apocalypse...
It was the betrayal of Aziraphale and his...mutation and it was knowing that he could die and it was the fact that she had sent him here. She had sent him here and apparently he had free will and she hadn't said anything. She had taught him that free will was bad and wrong, a stolen thing made by her that human beings should not have had. He was supposed to follow her will and make her decisions known. Especially him. He was the messenger but she had left him, she had left him, she had left him here where he could die and get hurt.
Not just die. Die forever.
It would be interesting to watch his features because after rearing back he's crying. He's not intending to but the words - Do you know true suffering - do humans? Does he? It's too much because suffering is being without Her and without his hierarchy, his family, and they aren't here and he...he...
Running fingers across his eyes he stares at the wetness before muttering to himself.]
Disgusting.
[Before he sniffs and reaches for a napkin to stare at Loki, features solid and potentially unnerving.]
...Suffering is the only path to her. Happiness is supposed to be a reward. Not something you avoid. But please. enlighten me What counts as suffering. How do you see it.
cw for mentions of violence against children
Date: 2020-01-12 04:24 am (UTC)From:Suffer the little children...
Is that it? You must suffer to find God and be happy?
I don't think that's how it should be. You do my job and see children who have been hurt both physically and emotionally, and mentally scarred beyond any hope of recovery and you tell me that that is the true path to happiness.
[His jaw sets; eyes hardened with anger. It's bubbling under the surface and he can't believe he's had a more reasonable conversation with Lucifer. Sympathy for the Devil indeed. He's beginning to think angels are too oblivious to really care about what the human world has to endure - and what humans do to themselves, given that free will by God.]
no subject
Date: 2020-01-12 04:47 am (UTC)From:[he pauses and has to think.] ...at least not what you would think of as a child. I was...[pause] young.
[He was young. He was young and innocent and then Lucifer divided them and he grew old and hard and cruel. Or perhaps he always was. He is starting to wonder but instead he looks unsteady.]
And children were...are not my department or purview. Sandalphon is in charge of childbirth, the only child I knew was Jesus and he...
[Gabriel's features pale.] ...I did see him suffer I suppose. And that did hurt.
[Until being here, and seeing all this and the things that have been done to me - this was the worst pain ever]
Why don't you believe people can recover?
no subject
Date: 2020-01-12 04:58 am (UTC)From:I believed a lot of lies growing up from priests who just wanted to scare us but I would have liked to think that angels truly were benevolent and gentle and watched over the innocent.
[He's clearly not believing that right now.]
Of course then there's also the warlike depiction of angels. But you don't appear to really be either.
You just don't understand, do you? Some things can't be overcome. Yes, I do believe some people can recover from trauma but then some people just don't. God should not require suffering from anybody if they are a decent and good God. Why would anyone want to make people suffer for some kind of reward that's only based on faith?
We don't have the certainty that you have. You live with it. You live with God. You know she exists. Nothing is certain for us and suffering should never be a necessity for any path.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-12 05:24 am (UTC)From:It's when he mentions good and decent God that Gabriel's eyes flash purple and lightning crackles from his fingers. Never mind his own questions about her, never mind his own hurt and anger that she left him here.]
I'm forbidden from interfering.
[He is also beaten down by all of this. Apocalypses and having been human and the love he's sensed from them and how he is supposed to be a creature of love and compassion but people keep yelling at him and he...
Compassion.]
You think it's easy watching you all blunder around and suffer? You think I like it? Do you think I willingly want people to be hurt?
I don't.
[His prayers for peace of mind go unheeded. His prayers for kindness and understanding go unanswered and he feels painfully alone but he will not show weakness.
Electricity crackles along his eyes and fingers.]
Do not presume that I do not have compassion or kindness for human beings. I closed the mouths of lions to protect Daniel from them. I delivered the news of her only son and the news of the gospels. My sword guards the city of Israel and I am sworn to lead the legions against the morningstar at the dawn of the final days.
[Electricity crackles and his voice echoes ever so slightly. But the electricity slides out and he sounds tired.]
...I can't help you. None of us can.
And bless it I wish I could. If only so you'd all stop saying I'm some kind of terrible angel.
[he sounds hurt.] I'm not. And She's not here and I'm tired of all of you complaining about it. She's more secretive and she never really talks to us anymore.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-12 06:07 am (UTC)From:Maybe you aren't a terrible angel. Maybe you're just so set on following orders that you've lost sight of individuals.
Maybe that's what all angels are like. At least those who haven't chosen free will and fallen...
I'm not here to judge you. I just want to understand you a little better.
[He's managed to calm down his own earlier rising anger and emotions, back to a more measured questioning again.]
no subject
Date: 2020-01-12 04:17 pm (UTC)From:I hate free will.
[He doesn't look at the human for a moment before looking back and running a hand through his hair.]
Not for any of you. Not because it was...
[here was the rub. Free will was what led Jane to paint and that boy to take him to the movies and to popcorn and soda and coffee and that confusing sense of love between the Hargreeves siblings but also hatred of their father. It was Sal fighting and Device figuring things out and Aziraphale just...existing. with Crowley. The two of them taking it all in without thinking. Or perhaps thinking too much
Inflicted he wants to say. But.]
Everyone has it. [he focuses on his date, expressions severe.] demons abuse it and humans don't know how to use it.
[and angels don't acknowledge it we're not taught that it's a thing we have. And I don't know what to do with it.
The realization knocks the wind out of him and he growls.]
What else do you want to know?
no subject
Date: 2020-01-12 04:24 pm (UTC)From:I'm beginning to think that your view is so limited that I'm not going to learn much more.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 02:17 am (UTC)From:...What specifically did you want to know?
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 02:28 am (UTC)From:If God did not exist, what would be most important to you?
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 02:30 am (UTC)From:[His voice is strained.] I was made by her. I mean without her...I wouldn't be here.
And she's nice. I mean it's going to sound immature but she is wonderful and I just wish...I wish I could convey that. You see when you said she's cruel that's just not true at all. She deserves better from all of us.
[He stares at his hands.]
...But I don't...
...Living?
[The pain on his face is palpable] What's important to you?
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 02:35 am (UTC)From:That's my job. That's what I do. I've dedicated my life to solving mysteries, both criminal and spiritual.
You're the latter.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 02:42 am (UTC)From:[Gabriel's eyebrows raise and he laughs harshly.]
I'm Gabriel. The archangel. I'm not a mystery, You all know everything about me. I'm in the book.
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Date: 2020-01-13 02:47 am (UTC)From:That's why I'm talking to you in person.
You think it's simple, don't you? You know God personally and so you have everything figured out. But haven't you found that being here is much more complicated? Viewing the swarm of ants from afar isn't the same as living among them.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 02:54 am (UTC)From:It's not my fault.
[Does he sound petulant? Yes. He shakes his head.]
...I couldn't leave. Someone had to manage things. Do you-
[he spreads his hands wide, leaning forward to stare at him and spread his hands.]
I supervised departments that made the trees and my voice moved the spheres of the cosmos. The power that my brothers and I had to overtake...Had to oversee? We kept things going. She has been quiet and I had to be in charge.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 02:59 am (UTC)From:Or there was, before you came here.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 03:04 am (UTC)From:[Gabriel puts his head in his hands, running his fingers over his hair, before he drags his fingers through his hair. He shakes his head and gestures.]
It's not easy. You all just seem to think it's easy and I'm fucking tired of it.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 03:21 am (UTC)From:We all have our struggles. Our own issues. Our own problems.
It's the differences in an angel's problems over a human's problems that interest me most.
You're seeking happiness. You cling to it, at all cost. Would you say that's accurate?
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 03:30 am (UTC)From:[Happiness is serving her.]
Why are you so confused by that? If you're happy she'll be happy with me.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 03:42 am (UTC)From:Or humanity in general?
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Date: 2020-01-13 03:45 am (UTC)From:[he pauses]
...But coffee first. I will buy it for you since I am polite.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 03:58 am (UTC)From:[He gets a refill of his previous order and eyes Gabriel.]
You think that simply having faith will bring happiness, don't you? I lost that faith a long time ago in a system that hurts the most innocent. I had to look elsewhere for a sense of belonging.
What do you think of organised religion anyway?
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 04:05 am (UTC)From:[Gabriel accepts the coffee.]
I gave humans the clues she told me to give humans. You all built it, I just had to give you the building blocks.
[His eyes widen and he laughs a little sadly. More then a little sadly.]
...God does not play games with the universe.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 04:11 am (UTC)From:[As a detective, he probably should already know this and he wouldn't blame Gabe for pointing that out - but he wants to know exactly what the archangel thought of as clues himself. In his own words.]
no subject
Date: 2020-01-13 04:16 am (UTC)From:That good and evil are real and that there was a schism between the two. [He exhales]
That we as angels are good, demons are bad. Then we...tease you into point A or point B. You had to make a choice.
That's what we were told to do. She staked a claim for the souls of the good and righteous.
The rest of it, priests and such. You all built that and a lot of it was wrong. It's extremely frustrating.
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